How small can an R camera go?: Canon EOS R Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (2024)

3

I have an R8, RP, and M100.

I use the M100 with a 22mm when I want to be discrete or I just want to carry light. After Canon released the R50 which approximated the M50 in size -- I was excited and in anticipation of an R100 to look like the M100. But NO. The R100 is too big with a bump on top. The M100 fits my jacket pocket.

So my question is can Canon make an R mount tiny camera the size of an m100/m200? Or is it an impossible engineering design?

1

Unclescooby wrote:

I have an R8, RP, and M100.

I use the M100 with a 22mm when I want to be discrete or I just want to carry light. After Canon released the R50 which approximated the M50 in size -- I was excited and in anticipation of an R100 to look like the M100. But NO. The R100 is too big with a bump on top. The M100 fits my jacket pocket.

So my question is can Canon make an R mount tiny camera the size of an m100/m200? Or is it an impossible engineering design?

There was a recent discussion on this: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67465238

While the OP claimed no, I thought that it may be possible to come up with an R that is M200 sized, except maybe 70mm tall instead of M200 67mm. So a 108 x 70 x 35 body instead of the R50’s 116 x 86 x 69.

I'm not sure where the consensus ended up, or if there was one.

8

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

And what happened to the rumoured retro-style camera? Have Canon surrendered that market to Nikon and Fuji?

Unclescooby wrote:

I have an R8, RP, and M100.

I use the M100 with a 22mm when I want to be discrete or I just want to carry light. After Canon released the R50 which approximated the M50 in size -- I was excited and in anticipation of an R100 to look like the M100. But NO. The R100 is too big with a bump on top. The M100 fits my jacket pocket.

So my question is can Canon make an R mount tiny camera the size of an m100/m200? Or is it an impossible engineering design?

There was a recent thread on this subject. The mount size makes it impossible.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67465238

I still have EOS M gear because I like the size. When I sell it I’ll keep that little M100/22mm lens combo.

3

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

1

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

1

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

That's OK, as long as I can flip it out with just a quick flick of my pinkie finger (like I do with the M6ii).

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras.

For the incredible amount of capability that the M System gave me in such a compact package, I was fine with the cost. The M6ii's Spot AF is still as good as the Spot AF in any of my R bodies (Face tracking however, not even close of course!). DIGIC X is what I'm looking for in an RF Mount replacement.

RF-S mount won't help with that.

True. An EVF-less crop body will be just as expensive.

But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now

M100 was too small for me. Not enough controls and features for my liking.

even in micro four-thirds format.

Nah, if I'm going to invest in a total system, it's gonna be at least APS-C.

We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

Well, they're not producing them! All Nikon and Sony have given us in smaller sized APS-C bodies are entry-level VLogger cameras. At least they don't have an EVF.

What I'm really afraid of is that Canon will follow suit and give us a copycat of those (without tilting LCD).

R2

3

The rest of the camera can be lower than the lens mount. Look at Sony Nex 5 series. M200 style camera with a smooth bump at the top and bottom would be possible I think.

RF-S glass seem almost unnecessary small for the current cameras. Not releasing a slim body for this glass would be a waste.

1

StrugglingforLight wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

If all the manuf are abandoning this market segment, then that will still leave a vacuum. Do we want only phones to fill that? Yes, phones are getting more capable every day (what with computational processing and the continued development of multiple and "periscope" lenses, etc), but simply "acceptable" performance is still not acceptable to a relevant share of the market quite yet IMHO.

I for one would still like to see an updated M6ii style camera offered.

R2

Of course Canon could make one, about M6 size, maybe 1-2mm taller, preferably with the LP-E17 battery too. I’d be happy with 24MP, R10 level firmware, and would definitely buy one. And they could make an RF-S mount pancake too - please make it a 17mm f2 for a true 28mm equivalent!

But whether they will is another question entirely.

R2D2 wrote:

StrugglingforLight wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

If all the manuf are abandoning this market segment, then that will still leave a vacuum. Do we want only phones to fill that? Yes, phones are getting more capable every day (what with computational processing and the continued development of multiple and "periscope" lenses, etc), but simply "acceptable" performance is still not acceptable to a relevant share of the market quite yet IMHO.

I for one would still like to see an updated M6ii style camera offered.

R2

The manufacturers do try new things, but we can't expect them to persist if people won't buy them.

R2D2 wrote:

StrugglingforLight wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

If all the manuf are abandoning this market segment, then that will still leave a vacuum. Do we want only phones to fill that? Yes, phones are getting more capable every day (what with computational processing and the continued development of multiple and "periscope" lenses, etc), but simply "acceptable" performance is still not acceptable to a relevant share of the market quite yet IMHO.

I for one would still like to see an updated M6ii style camera offered.

R2

Do we know how well the M6 II or M200 sold? We do know the M50/M50II did extremely well.

3

StrugglingforLight wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

I do not understand why Canon threw away M system and released R100.

lumenite wrote:

StrugglingforLight wrote:

Sittatunga wrote:

R2D2 wrote:

Greaves wrote:

When I adopted the R system with the original R, I traded in my entire M kit.

Whilst I am happy with my present R6 Mk2 and R7, together with several L lenses, I really regret selling my M kit. The M6 with either the 11-22, the 22 or the 32 was the perfect carry anywhere camera. I too hoped that the R50 would provide a replacement for the M and was disappointed. I see no technical reason why Canon can’t produce a M form camera with a RF mount. I accept it may have to be marginally larger to accommodate the RF mount, but we are talking millimetres.

I think there are a huge number of Canon users who don’t want to have to carry their serious kit around all the time and would appreciate a small carry anywhere camera.

Yup, I would LOVE an R camera with the form factor of the M6ii. Get rid of the EVF and give it a TILTING LCD. A match made in heaven!

R2

As long as the LCD tilts sideways too, so that the camera can be used in portrait orientation.

My problems with the the M6 and M6 II were that they were a lot more than I was prepared to pay for an APS-C companion to my full-frame cameras. RF-S mount won't help with that. But there have been no cameras smaller than the M100 for a few years now, even in micro four-thirds format. We're obviously not buying enough very small cameras to make them an economic proposition.

I think manufacturers have surrendered that part of the market to phones. Like you mentioned even M43s have gone big. There have been no rumors of an Olympus EM10 or Pen series that I've heard (their smallest cameras). Fuji XE series may not get updated this year (or at all?).

I do not understand why Canon threw away M system and released R100.

This is what boggles my mind, and I even own an R100. The M50 seemed very popular and they rehoused the internals to make the R100, but somehow made it worse. Literally all they had to do to make a winner of a camera was remove the EVF and include a touchscreen/USB charging.

3

cd_snaps wrote:

lumenite wrote:

...

I do not understand why Canon threw away M system and released R100.

This is what boggles my mind, and I even own an R100. The M50 seemed very popular and they rehoused the internals to make the R100, but somehow made it worse. Literally all they had to do to make a winner of a camera was remove the EVF and include a touchscreen/USB charging.

The R100 isn't an M series replacement. It's the mirrorless successor to the Kiss X90 / Rebel T7 / 2000D, with the addition of a central hotshoe contact so that it can fire a standard flashgun. We know it's a stripped out and cheapened RF mount M50, but we're not the target market. Canon have listened to too many people complaining about the lack of a viewfinder in most of the M series models.

Unclescooby wrote:

I have an R8, RP, and M100.

I use the M100 with a 22mm when I want to be discrete or I just want to carry light. After Canon released the R50 which approximated the M50 in size -- I was excited and in anticipation of an R100 to look like the M100. But NO. The R100 is too big with a bump on top. The M100 fits my jacket pocket.

So my question is can Canon make an R mount tiny camera the size of an m100/m200? Or is it an impossible engineering design?

I think making small body is one thing and making small lenses to go along with it is another.

I loved my M50 plus 22mm 2 / 15-45 kit / and 55-200 it. The entire kit was so compact I could throw everything in a small bag and it gave me big range of focal length. But I sold it when I heard the R50 announcement. Bought the R50 on release but immediately returned it in favor of R10, because at that size and lenses offered, I'd rather have R10.

jayk0607 wrote:

Unclescooby wrote:

I have an R8, RP, and M100.

I use the M100 with a 22mm when I want to be discrete or I just want to carry light. After Canon released the R50 which approximated the M50 in size -- I was excited and in anticipation of an R100 to look like the M100. But NO. The R100 is too big with a bump on top. The M100 fits my jacket pocket.

So my question is can Canon make an R mount tiny camera the size of an m100/m200? Or is it an impossible engineering design?

I think making small body is one thing and making small lenses to go along with it is another.

I loved my M50 plus 22mm 2 / 15-45 kit / and 55-200 it. The entire kit was so compact I could throw everything in a small bag and it gave me big range of focal length. But I sold it when I heard the R50 announcement. Bought the R50 on release but immediately returned it in favor of R10, because at that size and lenses offered, I'd rather have R10.

While the RF-S lens line up is still lacking, I am able to fit my R50 with 18-150 and one prime lens (a manual focus, or one of the RF lenses) in the same compact camera bag I used to carry my M6II with the 18-150 and EF-M 32mm. (Sadly the external EVF would not fit unless I removed the 32mm)

But don’t get me wrong, I would still very much enjoy a much smaller R camera, assuming Canon didn’t remove too many features. I don’t want a smaller R100, I would tolerate a smaller R50…

1

Thanks for all the input.

I think a part of me was hoping I had just missed a Canon news and that they were going to release an uber small R camera in mid 2024.

Anyway, if Canon is listening. I am hoping they consider making an R camera the size of an M100 or even an m6mkii -- with the autofocus of an R8. Please no protruding bump on the head.

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